Live coverage | Pell admits abuse was on his 'radar' from '70s

Early on, Cardinal Pell said "the Church has mucked things up" and "I'm not here to defend the indefensible".

He admitted that too many abuse claims were ignored "in scandalous circumstances".

He said there were "plausible" cases that were not followed up. "These were reasonable complaints that were dealt with very poorly."

He said that what happened with the notorious paedophile Gerald Ridsdale "was a catastrophe. A catastrophe for the victims and a catastrophe for the church."

He admitted: "I must say in those days, if a priest denied such activity, I was very strongly inclined to accept the denial."

In Ballarat, where victims gathered to watch the live feed, the reaction was largely incredulity at Cardinal Pell's testimony. 

The hearing continues tomorrow morning from 8am.

VIDEO | Pell: Ridsdale's treatment 'a catastrophe'

12:04pm: Abuse victim Gerard Morrow, 59, who was at the Ballarat Town Hall to watch Cardinal Pell's testimony said it was pretty much what he expected.

"Which wasn't much," he said.

Tim Lane, who was one of six Ballarat siblings to fall prey to Brother Grant Ross, did not find the hearing surprising either.

He told reporter Konrad Marshall: "It's everything I expected. The memory loss. The little tricks to get away with it."

12:02pm: It was 8.46am when the first failure of memory took place – when Cardinal George Pell acknowledged that his recollections would be imperfect, that his ability to remember would at times fail, writes Konrad Marshall.

"I can't remember," Pell said.

"I'm struggling to remember," he added later.

"I can't clearly recall," he noted.

11.58am: Day one of the hearing has now concluded and the hearing has been adjourned. There are still two more days to come.

11:47am: Furness asks whether Pell was more alert to the possibility of sexual abuse in the light of what happened with Monsignor Day. 

He concedes: "It was at least on the radar, that's for sure."

11:45am: Gail Furness is now asking about Father Gerald Ridsdale, who worked as chaplain at St Alipius Boy's School. "No rumours about him at all?"

Cardinal Pell: "No rumours of sexual misconduct."

Furness asks Pell if he had anything to do with the appointment of chaplains in schools. 

Pell: "I can't remember the issue ever being raised with me."

Furness asks if it was common for boys to "be taken for drives" by the priest or assistant priest.

Pell: "It wasn't common."

Furness: "Was it common at the time for parish priests or assistant priests to take boys away on overnight camps?"

Pell: "I had heard that Ridsdale did do that with groups of boys."

11:36am: Gail Furness is now trying to summarise the Christian Brothers allegations at several schools in Ballarat and what people did and didn't know, "Knowledge about the offending of a number of brothers." 

She suggests "there were a number of parents that know what was going on", along with school principals, Bishop Mulkearns, and teachers. 

She suggests the abuse was "known by a significant number of people in the community".

Pell agrees that the evidence suggests that was the case. 

11.32am: Melissa Cunningham has just provided an update, live from Rome:

Ballarat clergy abuse victims say they are growing increasingly frustrated by Cardinal Pell's evidence and failure to recall information about sexual abuse allegations.

Victim Andrew Collins said it was incomprehensible that Cardinal Pell could assume that Brother Leo Fitzgerald kissing boys was "harmless enough."

Another victim David Ridsdale said a number of victims have talked about seeing Cardinal Pell at St Patrick's College and the former St Alipius boys school  primary school but he continues to distance himself from the schools.

11:31am: Recapping what's happened so far …

Possibly the most candid moment of the morning came rather early, with Cardinal Pell describing what he recently discovered about the church's handling of some paedophile priests, including notorious paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale, as a catastrophe.

"The way he was dealt with was a catastrophe – a catastrophe for the victims, and a catastrophe for the church. If effective action had been taken earlier, then an enormous amount of suffering would have been avoided," he said.

However, Cardinal Pell has been less forthcoming with information about notorious paedophile Monsignor John Day, who was parish priest at Sacred Heart, Mildura, until 1972, and his activities around 1971.

"He was accused of some sort of paedophilia activity," Cardinal Pell said of Day.

And, he has denied knowing anything about a paedophile priest known only as "BMX".

11:28am: Furness takes Pell through another document that outlines claims that Brother Ted Dowlan took photographs of boys in the showers. Cardinal Pell says he was unaware of it. 

11:26am: Gail Furness brings up more allegations, this time from parents, about Brother Dowlan and in particular how he put his arm around boys. 

Cardinal Pell says he was not aware of that particular allegation.

​"The conduct that was brought to my attention was unspecified except it was either wrong or untoward." 

Did he know of Dowlan putting his hand down boys' trousers?

Pell (flatly): "No."

11:14am: Special Counsel Gail Furness asks Cardinal Pell if he had heard the term "bum buddies" being used by Christian Brothers in Ballarat about boys. Pell: "Never heard it."

11:12am: Gail Furness asks Pell if he heard an allegation from Father O'Toole that a Christian Brother had exposed himself to a student.

Cardinal Pell responds flatly: "No."

Furness asks Pell if he heard that the Brothers took boys to swim naked. 

Pell agrees that he had heard of it as an "end-of-year" trip but says: "No improprieties were ever mentioned to me."

Pell then says, as he did earlier, he was a full-time academic and that he was busy giving mass, which was why he was not readily available to parents to talk to.

11:07am: Furness brings up gossip among 14-year-old students who said things like "be careful if 'BWX' offers to give you a massage."

She asks Pell if he knew about 'BWX'.

He says he did not and said: "I certainly never heard of any massages at Ballarat East."

11.05am: This update from The Courier's Olivia Shying at Ballarat Town Hall:

There is a sombre mood at the town hall with people continuing to come in to hear Cardinal Pell's evidence.

Whispers from observers suggests they can remember things Cardinal Pell can't. When problems with Dowlan were mentioned many people murmured and shook their heads. 

11.00am: Cardinal Pell said sexual abuse allegations of disgraced Christian Brother Edward Dowlan were gossiped about by clergy in 1974.

He told the inquiry he believed Dowlan's problems with students were of "a sexual kind"and that he also problems with disciplining children. 

Cardinal Pell said does not recall who told him about allegations, possibly students at St Patrick's College or other priests.

He said he raised the issue with school chaplain Father Brendan Davey who told him it was being dealt with by the Christian Brothers.

10.52am: Further update from Melissa Cunningham:

Cardinal Pell's view on paedophile Brother Leo Fitzgerald who worked at St Alipius boys school:

"It was common knowledge (he was kissing boys) there was a general conviction it was harmless enough." he said.

Cardinal Pell said there was talk among clergy about Brother FItzgerald's "eccentricity."

10:50am: Cardinal Pell has issued a statement denying that the scuffle which occurred outside the hotel with Australian media did not involve his security.

Here's the statement:

Earlier, members of the Australian media contingent in Rome to cover the inquiry claimed they were pushed, shoved and punched by Cardinal Pell's "big, burly" security guards.

10.36am: More updates from Melissa Cunningham in Rome:

Cardinal Pell said the handling of Ridsdale was "catastrophic for victims and catastrophic for the church".

He told the inquiry, Bishop Ronald Mulkearns was major reason behind the church's failure to protect children.

"If effective action had been taken earlier an enormous amount of suffering would have been avoided," he said.

"He (Bishop Mulkearns) gave him chance, after chance, he shifted him around and initially at trusted excessively in the possible benefits of psychological help for offending priests." 

Cardinal Pell told inquiry there were no excuses for the destruction of documents on paedophile priests, as Bishop Mulkearns is alleged to have done to corneal child sex crimes.

10:33am: Furness is now talking to Cardinal Pell about a newspaper article that covered the activities of paedophile Monsignor Day.

She asks him: "Is this the first occasion on which it came to your attention that a priest had been accused of sexual offences against children?"

Pell: "It certainly would be one of the first and perhaps the first." 

10:18am: Special Counsel Gail Furness is talking to Cardinal Pell about the activities of Monsignor Day in the Mildura area, and complaints that began to emerge from his parish, allegations of "gross indecency" and "buggery". 

Furness takes Pell through a bundle of documents.

She raises a document signed by the Solicitor General from 1972 that was in relation to an inquiry into Monsignor Day and that there was insufficient evidence to prosecute. However, it said: "There appeared to ... be little room for doubt that Day misconducted himself."

Furness asks Pell was he aware of the letter?

He denies all knowledge of it. 

Furness asks Pell if he understands that while there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Day, it did not mean the allegations were unfounded.

Pell agrees that he understands. 

10:14am: Cardinal Pell is now being asked what he knew about Monsignor Day.  The Age's senior crime reporter John Silvester wrote last year about Senior Detective Denis Ryan – "a decent cop who ended up losing the career he loved for just trying to do his job," bringing reports about Day to his superiors. 

10.09am: A further update from Melissa Cunningham in Rome:

Cardinal George Pell called for clergy to report allegations of child sexual abuse by clergy to be reported to police. 

His words at the inquiry, come in the wake of the release of a new training guideline written by French monsignor Tony Anatrella, a consultant to the Pontifical Council for the Family, and released by the Vatican this month. 

It tells newly appointed bishops it is “not necessarily” their duty to report allegations of child sexual abuse and only victims or their families should decide whether to report abuse to police.

"That advice was unfortunate and regarded as that," Cardinal Pell told the inquiry.

"The law of the land should always be followed."

He also said he supported a national redress scheme which allowed culpable parties, including the Catholic Church to contribute ongoing funds to victims. 

10:05am: From Konrad Marshall in Ballarat: two survivors respond. 

"They just keep giving us continual denials and 'I don't remember' and 'I don't recall'. And what drives me nuts is we've gotta recall it. If they put us on the stand, we've gotta remember what the dates were, what happened, how did it happen. They just go, 'I don't recall', 'I'm too old', 'I'm having a senior citizen moment'. It's pretty much what I expected. Which wasn't much." – Gerard Morrow, 59

"I was four when I was abused. I'm now 44. And I remember it vividly. I remember every detail. And they were grown men but they remember nothing? I don't accept that." – Tim Lane

10.01am: This is from Melissa Cunningham in Rome:

Survivors have expressed frustration with Cardinal Pell's patchy memory as he give evidence to the child sex abuse inquiry.

Mr Ridsdale also said Cardinal Pell has failed to acknowledge any of the victims sitting in the public hearing.

"He hasn't looked at us all once," Mr Ridsdale said.

Abuse survivor Gordon Hill said he felt Cardinal Pell had "selective Vatican memory loss."

"I wish I could give him (Pell) some of my childhood memories of being abused by priests.. because I tell you what, those memories are unforgettable," he said.  

9:54am: The hearing has resumed. Special Counsel Gail Furness is taking Cardinal Pell through an article about Monsignor Day and his "love for young boys" and "taking them on trips".

Pell says: "I hadn't heard the trips mentioned."

But not the love for young boys?

Pell: "I can't give any details."

9:48am: From Nick Miller in Rome:

During the break, a number of survivors express their frustration with Cardinal Pell's patchy memory as he gives evidence. 

And they're not satisfied with his confessions about the church's failings in the past - they say actions count more than words. 

9:47am: Gail Furness, SC, now questioning Pell, was in Ballarat last week, where she put questions to retired bishop Ronald Mulkearns, who also gave evidence by video from his nursing home - 3 kilometres from the hall where the commission was held. 

WATCH THE VIDEO | George Pell: 'I'm not here to defend the indefensible'

9.30am: The hearing has just adjourned for a short break.

The first wrap comes from The Courier's  Melissa Cunningham.

"Australia's most senior Catholic has admitted the church has made "catastrophic" mistakes in its handling of child sexual abuse.

"I'm not here to defend the indefensible, the church has made enormous mistakes, " Cardinal Pell said at the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. 

At the public hearing which began on Sunday evening in Rome, Cardinal Pell told the packed conference room the church's handling of the offending of disgraced priest Gerald Ridsdale was "catastrophic."

Clergy abuse survivor Andrew Collins said Cardinal Pell's evidence had been "interesting" so far.

He welcomed Cardinal Pell's view that clergy must follow "the law of the land" they live in rather than a historic directive from the Vatican which outlined it wasn't the duty of the clergy to report allegations of child sexual abuse.

"His acknowledgement that they didn't handle things well in the past was pleasing to hear," he said. "But he (Pell) should push for the Vatican to make it mandatory for clergy to report sexual abuse to police."   

(Pell) is very controlled and scripted," Clergy sexual abuse victim David Ridsdale said. 

"Doesn't like to be surprised, he is highlighting memory problems before they arrive."

He said senior counsel assisting the commission, Gail Furness is doing "brilliantly."

The hearing continues.

CLICK PLAY TO VIEW THE VIDEO ABOUT PELL'S ROUGH ARRIVAL

9:23am: Furness is now asking what Pell knew about notorious paedophile Monsignor John Day and his activities around 1971. Did Pell hear any of the gossip about him?

Pell: "He was accused of some sort of paedophilia activity." He says that in those days if a priest denied "that sort of activity" he was strongly inclined to accept the denial.

Pell recalls "it was a great scandal". 

Furness asks Pell whether the gossip about Day came from fellow priests. Pell accepts that.

9.21am: George Pell has promised to meet survivors and their families in private after the hearing.

9:18am: Furness is asking Cardinal Pell about his time in Swan Hill. Did he have anything to do with schools in the Mildura area? Pell: "No."

9:12am: Cardinal Pell tells the commission he thinks the way Bishop Mulkearns dealt with paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale was "catastrophic".

He says:

"I have just re-read the file of Ridsdale. The priest - ex-priest - and the way he was dealt with was a catastrophe. A catastrophe for the victims and a catastrophe for the church.

If effective action had been taken earlier, an enormous amount of suffering would've been avoided."

9.08am: Clergy abuse survivor Stephen Woods has told Melissa Cunningham he is torn between "outright anger and cynicism" with Cardinal Pell's evidence so far.

9:06am: Furness asks Pell whether he had concerns about Bishop Mulkearns.

Pell: ​"I can't give chapter and verse on what Mulkearns knew at the time and did not act on."

9:05am: The commission's chair, Justice Peter McClellan, has interjected over the top of Furness's questioning. 

Pell said: "If a priest is engaging in sexual behaviour, either heterosexually or homosexually, that's incompatible with his continuing as a priest and it's possible that people were sent off..."

McClellan interjected: "All that counsel is asking you for are the names of any priests you can remember who were sent off for treatment. What is your recollection? What do you recall?"

Pell replied: "I'm not sure that Ryan was - I'm not well versed on Ryan. I didn't have much to do with his story."

9:01am: Pell is now being asked about Father Paul David Ryan and whether he was sent away from Ballarat for treatment "for matters of a sexual nature".

Pell: "I don't have any clear recollection ... I'm not sure what period we're talking about." 

Furness says it was about 1977.

Pell: "I don't have any clear recollection."

He says: "Ryan had an unusual style. I was never particularly supportive of his vocation."

8.58am: 

8:53am: Furness puts it to Pell that during his time in Ballarat: "Most (abuse) complaints in the period of time we're talking about tended to be dismissed."

Pell: "Too many of them certainly were dismissed ... in scandalous circumstances." He says there were "plausible" cases that were not followed up. "These were reasonable complaints that were dealt with very poorly."

8.50am: This from our reporter in Rome, Melissa Cunningham:

"Clergy abuse survivor Andrew Collins said Cardinal Pell's evidence had been "interesting" so far.

He welcomed Cardinal Pell's view that clergy must follow "the law of the land" they live in rather than a historic directive from the Vatican which outlined it wasn't the duty of the clergy to report allegations of child sexual abuse.

"His acknowledgement that they didn't handle things well in the past was pleasing to hear," he said.

"But he (Pell) should push for the Vatican to make it mandatory for clergy to report sexual abuse to police."  

8:46am: Furness asks whether he was ever told about children being touched inappropriately. Pell says: "It was a long time ago and I can't remember any such complaints." He says: "My memory is sometimes fallible." 

8:45am: Furness asks Pell whether in his role he spent much time visiting schools. Pell says no, he didn't have much time to visit schools as he was a full-time academic. Furness asks him is he was ever approached by anybody about problems in schools.

Pell: "Yes people would speak to me sometimes about problems."

8:43am: Pell is talking about his role in Ballarat as episcopal vicar for education in Ballarat from 1973 until 1984: 

"The way I saw the role, the way I will try to describe it... I was the bishop's representative. That meant that I chaired the Ballarat diocese in education commission. I sometimes represented the bishop at openings and things like that.

"I was also chairman of the board of small teachers college called the Sacred Heart teachers' college and most of my time... was spent trying to ensure its survival and it did survive as the Aquinas campus now of Australian Catholic University.

8:34am: Gail Furness is asking Pell about his childhood in Ballarat. She talks him through his achievements at school, his family and his studies in Rome. Pell is talking about priests who failed to become ordained in the same time period as him. He refers obliquely to The Pill and the sexual revolution of the 1960s. 

8:28am: Furness has asked Pell is there are any structural problems with in the Catholic Church. Pell says "the faults overwhelmingly have been personal failures rather than structural." 

8:26am: Pell says: "I'm not here to defend the indefensible". He says in many places "the Church has mucked things up" and "I'm not here to defend the indefensible". Gail Furness responds: "I'm not asking you to."

8:18am: Special Counsel Gail Furness is putting questions to George Pell. She puts to him "one purpose of the Commission is to propose initiatives to the Pope" for the prevention of future crimes and asks whether that has already happened. She asks whether there has been advice given to the Pope. Pell's response: "I'm not quite sure." 

8:17am: From Nick Miller in Rome: 

Ironically, many of the abuse survivors and supporters would have got a better look at Pell during the hearing if they'd stayed home.

His 'witness box' is down at the end of a long room, and no video screen will show his face in Rome - instead, we'll see video from Sydney. 

However Pell has reportedly agreed to meet some survivors privately, separate to the Commission hearing, while they are in Rome.

8:15am: From reporter Konrad Marshall in Ballarat: 

People are slowly filing in to the Trench Room at Ballarat Town Hall, a gorgeous upstairs space in the historic building on Sturt St. By 8am, around 50 people were seated in front of three video screens, among them Ballarat mayor Des Hudson.

"I think there's a desire to move on, and we've seen that with the vicar general and the bishop supporting the loud fence campaign, and with Cardinal Pell tying a ribbon to the grotto at the Vatican. But I think those overt gestures will be balanced by the answers he gives.

If anyone is going to truly move on from this, it will come from how he responds to these questions, and that search for truth."

8:12am Nick Miller: There is a big Australian media contingent here in Rome but also a number of Italian 'Vaticanista' specialists. 

One told me there is strong interest locally in the story. 

Cardinal Pell is the third most senior Vatican official and, one reporter told me, "the highest ranking official ever to have his feet held to the fire like this".

8:11am: Asked if he could be considered the third most senior person in the Vatican, George Pell replies: "I wouldn't get into that game at all."

8:10am: You can live stream Cardinal Pell's appearance from the Royal Commission's site here: 

8:09am: Pell tells the hearing in Sydney: "I can see you and I can hear you." He swears on the Bible to tell the truth and tells the commission his position in the Vatican is the equivalent of treasurer for the Holy See.

8:09am: Allegations have been made against Cardinal Pell by four witnesses. Cardinal Pell has been called from Sydney. 

8:07am: The hearing is underway, with background being read on Cardinal George Pell. 

8:03am: From Ballarat Courier reporter Melissa Cunningham, who travelled to Rome with some of the survivors:

Ballarat clergy survivor Philip Nagle is in Rome honouring his 12 fellow St Alipius Christian Brothers Primary School pupils who have committed suicide or died prematurely - out of a class of 33. 

"I'm here for my other classmates," he said, "My classmates who are not with us anymore, who couldn't be here because they have decided to take their own lives. That's directly and indirectly. Some have drunk themselves to death, some have driven cars into poles. I'm here as their voice and I know the other survivors are here for their mates, as their voice. They've made the journey for the people they know who can't speak for themselves." 

Mr Nagle was repeatedly assaulted by disgraced priest Stephen Farrell when he was a grade five pupil.

Mr Nagle told Fairfax media said survivors believed they would know whether Cardinal Pell would protect the "Catholic brand" or "have the guts" to tell the commission what he potentially might have known within the first few minutes of the inquiry.

"I"m hoping to see our ex Ballarat boy George Pell be truthful and honest in what he says," Mr Nagle said.

8:02am: Some images now from outside the Hotel Quirinale in Rome, where Cardinal George Pell is giving testimony this morning. He has entered the room but has yet to begin speaking.

7:58am: Legally, nobody can ask questions from the floor in Rome, explains Nick Miller. The only people with "standing" to cross examine Pell are at the other end of the video link. Pell is expected to have a lawyer in attendance - but can only sit near his client, he is not allowed to advise his client during the hearing. His barrister is in Sydney.

7:54am: Nick Miller reports: It's a stormy night in Rome - wooden shutters banging in the wind, waiters rushing to bring cafe tables inside, lightning flickering over the seven hills. A packed house is expected at the Hotel Quirinale, where the Royal Commission's team are hoping everything will run like clockwork. An Australian federal police officer has conducted a security sweep of the building, and the audience here will be told not to interject during the hearing. Indeed, carpet has been rolled onto the parquet floor to minimise noise, so Cardinal Pell can concentrate on the questions being beamed from the other side of the world.

7:47am: Protesters have gathered in outside Governor Macquarie tower in Sydney where the royal commission is about to hear evidence from Cardinal George Pell.